I love money. I wished I didn't but when I get it I am glad. I want more of it.
People keep asking me if i've read the comment on the "American Dream" post. Yes, i've read it and I have decided to stop tithing forever (Actually it is really long so I read some, took a nap, then finished it). Oh wait, no, I actually will continue to tithe whilst telling people that they need to as well.
Tithing is biblical and only hippies playing bongos and talking about free love would argue otherwise. If you don't plan to tithe you will not. You will just rummage through your wallet at the last second and give God scraps. 10% is a starting point. Like I said, it's all God's. Putting a number on tithing doesn't make it mechanical or dogmatic....it keeps you from being a dummy.
Tithing is an act of worship. When that money leaves your pocket you feel it. It makes me happy that God gave me a job and I have money to give. Our chief end is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever. Tithing helps do this. It also helps you not be selfish and greedy. Like I said....something inside of me loves money. I want to keep it to myself and not give it away.
Even if 10% is totally wrong (it's right) I'd rather err on the side of giving instead of the lazy, greedy, sloppy side. Give out of love for the one, true God. Give because you want to and worship God while doing it.
14 comments:
I wholeheartedly disagree with you about tithing and I am not a hippie.
1. Post-Calvary Christian giving principles in Second Corinthians are superior to tithing. (1) Giving is a "grace.” (2) Give yourself to God first. (3) Give yourself to knowing God’s will. (4) Give in response to Christ’s gift. (5) Give out of a sincere desire. (6) Do not give because of any commandment (8:8, 10; 9:7). (7) Give beyond your ability. (8) Give to produce equality. (9) Give joyfully (8:2). (10) Give because you are growing spiritually. (11) Give to continue growing spiritually. (12) Give because you are hearing the gospel preached.
2. Abraham's tithed in Genesis 14 in obedience to pagan tradition. (1) He did not "freely" give. (2) His was NOT a holy tithe from God’s holy land by God’s holy people under God’s holy Covenant. (3) His was only from pagan spoils of war required in many nations. (4) In Num. 31, God required 1% of spoils. (5) His tithe to his priest-king was a one-time event. (6) Not from his personal property. (7) Kept nothing for himself. (8) Is not quoted to endorse tithing. (9) Most commentaries explain 14:21 as pagan Arab tradition, it is contradictory to explain the 90% of 14:21 as pagan, while insisting the 10% of 14:20 was obedience to God’s will. (10) If Abraham were an example for Christians to give 10%, he should also be an example for Christians to give the other 90% to Satan, or to the king of Sodom! (11) As priests, neither Abraham nor Jacob had a Levitical priesthood to support; they probably left food for the poor at their altars.
3. Although money was common and essential for worship for over 1500 years, biblical tithes were always only food increased by God from inside Israel (Lev. 27:30, 32; see site for all 16 texts).
4. Since only farmers and herdsmen tithed, there was no minimum standard requirement for most. Tradesmen such as carpenters (Jesus), Peter (fishermen) and Paul (tentmakers) did not qualify as tithe-payers. The poor and Gentiles did not tithe.
5. Tithing was only commanded to national Israel under the terms of the Old Covenant. Tithing was never commanded to the Church after Calvary (Ex 19:5-6; Lev 27:34; Mal 4:4; Mt 23:23 matters of the law).
6. Those who received the first whole tithe did not minister atonement (Num. 18:21-24; Neh10:37b). Priests only received 1% (a tenth of the tithe) (Num 18:25-28; Neh 10:38).
7. In exchange for receiving tithes, both Levites and priests forfeited all rights to permanent land inheritance inside Israel (Num. 18:20-26).
8. Firstfruits are not the same as tithes. Firstfruits were a very small token offering (Deu 26:1-4; Neh 10:35-37; Num 18:13-17). Tithes were the tenth and not the best; only 1% of the tithes included the best (Lev. 27:32, 33).
9. There were 4 O.T. tithes: (1) Government taxes (1 Sam 8:14-17). (2) Levitical (Num. 18:21-28; Neh. 10:37-39). (3) Festival (Deu 12:1-19; 14:22-26). (3) Poor tithe every 3rd year (Deu 14:28-29; 26:12-13).
10. Tithes were often taxes used to support Levite [politicians (1 Chron, chap 23 to 26; esp 23:2-5; 26:29-32; 27:5). Tithes never supported mission work (Ex 23:32; Heb 7:12-18).
11. OT Levitical tithes were brought first to the Levitical cities and not to the Temple (Num 18; Neh 10:37-39; 2 Chron 31:15-19). Most Levites required tithes in their Levitical cities where 98% stayed (Num 35, Josh 20, 21).
12. Malachi 3 is the most abused tithing text in the Bible. (1) Malachi is OT and is never quoted in the New Covenant to validate tithing. (2) Tithes are still only food. (3) His audience reaffirmed the OT curses (Neh.10:28-29). (4) The blessings and curses of tithing are identical to and inseparable from those of the entire Mosaic Law (Deu 28:12, 23-24; Gal 3:10/Deu 27:26). (5) “You” in Malachi refers to the dishonest priests and not the people (1:6-14; 2:1-10; 2:13 to 3:1-5). (6) The “whole” tithe never went to the Temple! (Neh 10:37b). (7) The Levitical cities must be included in a correct interpretation. (8) The 24 courses of Levites and priests must be included. (9) The “storehouse” in the Temple was only several rooms (Neh 13:5, 9). (9) “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse” only makes contextual sense if it is only commanding dishonest priests to replace the tithes they had removed from it or had failed to bring to it.
13. The OT Temple and priesthood have been replaced by the priesthood of every believer. NT elders and pastors more closely resemble OT prophets who were not supported by tithes.
14. Tithing was not legalized as a church law until AD 777. If was not introduced as a local regional law until the 6th century. See any reputable encyclopedia.
15. NT giving principles are: freewill, sacrificial, generous, joyful, not by commandment or percentage and motivated by love for God and lost souls.
From the book, Should the Church Teach Tithing?
www.tithing-russkelly.com russell-kelly@att.net
Well I am a hippie and I agree with everyone. Universalism baby. If you think you're right then you are right. 2+2=5? Sure. Cat is dog, dog is cat? Why not? You think God doesn't want you to encourage tithing? You are correct sir. Plus who can afford it? Am I right, Doc? Of course I am.
You are funny. God bless you.
My verification word is "shint".
Didn't the good Doctor already shamelessly plug his book in a previous post? Josh, I hope you are getting royalties out of that. But remember what Biggie said, "Mo' money. Mo' problems."
Friends,
I am merely trying to get somebody curious enough to enter a dialog with me on tithing. I post my point wherever I see a blog on tithing to promote the gospel in its purity.
Since the pro-tithers control the BIG MONEY and
will not allow my books in stores the only outlet is the Internet and I earn about $50/month there to pay for my Internet costs.
Why not discuss the points I made rather than discuss me? The truth will win out sooner or later.
Email from Dodd:
He maaaaay be completely misunderstanding what you're trying to say. I just went to his website. I think that he thinks anyone who encourages tithing is a Joel Olsteen health and wealth gospel guy and overlooks the fact that regardless of whether he is wrong or not, it just makes good sense, keeps you from being greedy, and helps a lot of people out who otherwise wouldn't be helped (like orphans.) I wish everyone had the all encompasing wisdom that we have....
Guys, I wrote this post about tithing to make you think. My main goal was to get you to stop being American (wasting money, being selfish with money, and not caring about any other country). But I am glad that Russell has challenged us.
Let's be adults. Granted we all love to make fun of each other, Dr Kelly doesn't know us....be nice. Stop acting like you are 7.
And Russell, we don't know you either. You came across like a know-it-all with your 15 point comment. We disagree on one major point - The OT is just as relevant as the NT. You can't just throw it out. I will not win this argument b/c you are much, much smarter than me but we agree on the fact that tithing must be given out of sincere desire, given joyfully, given b/c we love people, etc. Your argument is that since Jesus came, died, and rose again, we are not held to any rules of the OT. New Covenant Theology, right?
Well, I believe the entire Bible is one story that God is telling us. The rescue of His people in Exodus is the same as the rescue that occurs in the Gospels, etc. But I promise, you are smarter. I am sure you are a nice guy who is not a know it all. My main point is this....you need to give at least 10%. Malachi says it. (I know you think it is taken out of context). But I believe it is not.
All I want you to do is stop holding on to your money so tight while holding onto Jesus so loosely.
I am not so serious all of the time. I dress up and do an Elvis Impersonator and sing for free at senior citizen centers. www.russrocksingeorgia.com
What principle do you follow when deciding which of the 613 commandments of the Law are still good for the Church and which ones are to be discarded? The OT Law was never given to anybody except national Israel and Israel was told not to share its covenant.
That part of the Law which is eternal and part of the character of God has been repeated by the Holy Spirit in terms of grace and faith after Calvary.
Freewill and sacrificial giving (not tithing) must be given out of sincere desire, given joyfully, given b/c we love people, etc. God did not care how one felt about tithing --it was Law.
The entire Bible is one story but God made it clear that a New Covenant would replace the Old Covenant in Jeremiah 31 as seen in Hebrews 8:8-13.
You do not need to give 10%. Only farmers and herdsmen who lived inside Israel were required to give 10%. The church is told in 2nd Corinthians 8:12-15 to follow the "equality" principle: some give more (than 10%) while others give less (than 10%) --it equals out at the end! Malachi is not speaking to the Church.
Holding onto what money so tight? The roaches and mice are starving at my house because they cannot find anything to eat. I give away every extra pennies I find in this small 960 sq ft trailer.
Wow, those Elvis picks are hilarious. You make a great point about the 600 and something OT laws. The Bibles mentions tithing (or giving money to advance the Kingdom and help people who can't help themselves) a lot. Paul never puts a percentage on it when he's asking people to give. The NT never says "have a quiet time" or "prayer everyday" (I guess praying without ceasing may imply everyday)....it also never mentions anything about how to conduct a wedding...we've just inferred it. Since the OT gives us a starting point with the 10% I think that is the logical path to follow. Plus 10% isn't much.
Like I said, no one is going to win this argument. Tithing is a big deal (or whatever name you want to give it). And when I said, "All I want you to do is stop holding on to your money so tight", I didn't mean you personally...I meant "you" as a general you to everyone. I would never make an assumption about your financial budgeting.
I am just glad I got people to get worked up over something besides college football. It's time we stirred things up a little bit and started thinking about what we believe and why.
Having said that - Go Gamecocks.
Wow. This is impressive... And slightly brain numbing. I agree with you, Josh...
And I also appreciate that you ended a comment about the Bible and tithing with Go Gamecocks. Carolina is my fave. :)
so, you're saying we should tithe, but we shouldn't call it tithing?
I think I will call my tithes "jellybeans."
Your own words, however, should concern you: "Since the pro-tithers control the BIG MONEY and
will not allow my books in stores the only outlet is the Internet and I earn about $50/month there to pay for my Internet costs."
They won't allow your books in stores? Do you realize how many horrible books (see generally "The Secret" and "I Kissed Dating Goodbye") get sold in bookstores??
What I meant was that Christian book publishers do notd want a book out there that might topple their cominoes adn hurt there cash cow. My book is self-publisjhed and sells on the INternet. It has 20 good reviews onAmazon. com.
I do not think that the por should tithe. They did not tithe in the OT but received tithes. They should not be made inadequate or cursed when they come to church because they cannot afford to give 10%.
Jellybeans works for me.
Hey Eunice. Try not to be immature and mean, ok.
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